Leaf fans deserve more

You’re quite right Toth. Leafers deserve more for the long wait. Especially because they have the big market tools to make it happen – $. But then again it is my opinion that hockey teams in Canada should be in the same boat on an unusually consistent basis, more so than the likes of the Wings and other yearly Stanley Cup contenders.

But the story is best told in small markets like Edmonton where a generation of CANADIAN hockey players, since the departure of Gretzky to LA, have felt it ok to play in the sunny south rather than in the country that taught them how to be heroes. I think of Pronger leaving Oil-Town. Roy leaving Montreal. All so they can get the extra perk of not having that tough Canadian media exposure. All so they can get the best of both worlds like in some cases with that sun of a beach.

I think the departure of Gretzky sparked this. I will not blame him personally because he put the game on the map and seems like a good guy overall. But much of Canada’s problems vis-à-vis NHL hockey have been due to his leave from Edmonton.

Financial problems took rise during the 80s when putting a tag on the “Great One” became the fall of less fortunate markets like Winnipeg and Quebec in the 90s. Clearly, finance had a big role but a lot of that financial stuff came into question when Gretzky’s deal was being negotiated in the 80s where owners and managers got carried away offering skilled players crazy top dollar packages. Remember how the Oilers offered Wayne that shopping plaza? Freakin’ Pocklington was doing it like Bacchus back in those days pouring money everywhere like it was wine and on top of it making it the bucks moonshine fashion.

Teaching our kids that trades will happen and that better opportunities are way down south has been the problem here in Canada. We must instil the mentality of “play at home if you can and do so when you can.” I love how Kariya never signs in Canada when he is offered good money to do so. He then goes and plays for St. Louis, Nashville and remember that beautiful stint in Colorado where he was supposed to take a paycut and win it all. He should have stayed in Anaheim or at least pulled off the same programme in Canada. “Hey guys… How about we win one for our ever so supportive country?” The truth is that these guys know they are not good enough to handle the pressure of playing up north. We’ll have to wait until that generation of players is weeded out of our NHL system. Thank god many of the players from the late 90s are slowly disappearing! This country needs a fresh start and deserves, as Toth had mentioned for Toronto, an all around better on ice product with consistent and extremely possible playoff and Stanley Cup aspiration. This cannot be said when teams like the Oilers cannot make it to the post-season the year after they have made it to the finals.

The differnce is that the Yankees are allowed to actually spend their fans money. The Leafs are forced to hand over cash to second rate teams with no fans just so Gary Bettman can maintain teams across the US and pretend he plays in the same league as Ralph Goodell and Bud Selig.

The salary cap takes the fans out of the game. It doesn’t matter how crazy or loyal they are, their dedication is just turned into profit while ten people in some backwater market get to watch the exact same calibre of team.

The only people who should be more angry about the cap thans player, are fans of teams who actually have fans.

No team is going to go anywhere when it is owned by a Teachers Union. With all of those “owners”, there is no single entity to light a fire under management to get results.

If you want change in the Leafs Organization, everyone needs to be changed – from the Ownership right down to the 4th line.

There is a difference between been a passionate fan and an arrogant one. Yankees, Red Sox, and Leaf fans fall into the latter catagory. That is why they are laughed at and reviled. Also the reason why the Yanks and the Sox win more often is they have no salary cap and are the richest franchises.

As a die hard Habs fan all I can say is that I love the fact that the “make me laughs” are sitting outside of the playoffs for yet another year. But those die hard leaf fans better get use to this for the next 4-5 years because until they clean house in the front office and get rid of those hefty contracts, they will do nothing but sit just outside of the playoffs. Their farm system is ridiculous and they have no top prospects besides for Pogge and he’s not going to be the savior of this franchise because all he’s going to have in front of him is a bunch of nobodies. This team needs some good Canadian players on this team to bring back some respectability to the franchise.

GO HABS GO!!!

In a salary cap world the Leafs will never win championships regularly and be the “Yankees” of hockey. They had their chance from 1990-2004 and through incompetent management they blew it.

The reason the Leafs struggle so mightily are buffoons like John Ferguson Jr. and the like. If they ever actually brought in a GM that could actually judge talent and make smart decisions, they might have a hope.

Good luck with that.

Why do some of you suggest the Salary Cap is the issue? If the issue was the Salary Cap, shouldn’t the Leafs have won a bunch of cups in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s when there wasn’t one?

Mike, sorry but Leaf fans do not deserve anything more than any other fan base across the NHL. You say that their blind loyalty warrants them deserving better than the fans of other teams? It’s precisely this sort of attitude that makes Leaf Nation so incredibly disliked (for lack of a better term) across Canada and including the US too.

Leaf fans have been duped for over four decades. The last time they were in a cup final was when there were a paltry 6 teams in the league. TML is nothing more than a license to print money, that’s it. If people want to be used and abused by an organization like that then they do not deserve more than they are already getting.

Leaf Nation worships Sundin, but come on, what has he truly done for that team? He’s done nothing. He has lead them to one division title since he got there 13 years ago. Not very impressive. When it was time to help the team draft high next season, he BAILED. If that’s what Leaf fans call a classy leader who has given their franchise so much, then they do not deserve a winning team.

Leafs will stink for years to come, why on earth would anything change now? Leaf Nation has been wallowing in self pity for decades. Stop feeling so sorry for yourselves. Leaf Nation has brought this situation on themselves and they have no one else to blame. Quit your whining.

Well Doctor,

…when everyone hates you for no other reason than jealousy, that tends to breed a bit of arrogance, not to mention contempt.

And before I read 97 responses saying “why the heck would anyone be jealous of that lousy team” I don’t mean you want our team, I mean you want what out team has and yours doesn’t – constant media coverage nation wide, a massive unyeilding fanbase (also nation wide), and limitless financial support.

Just imagine how much you’ll hate the Leafs and Leaf fans once Ken Holland comes back to the team that drafted him and does in TO what he’s done in Detroit.

Well badge. Thanks for making my point for me on the arrogancy of Leaf fans. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Firstly, Gretzky did not want to be traded. He was essentially sold by a greedy owner and cried when it happened. Pronger did not choose to go to a sunny location, he was traded and could just have easily wound up in Montreal or Toronto. His reasons for wanting to leave have never been clear, but there was certainly no indication that he couldn’t hack the media pressure. Roy was traded from Montreal over a feud with a coach, not any sort of dislike of playing in Canada. And who are we to tell players where they should and shouldn’t play? Those decisions are complicated and personal. And I won’t even comment on your analysis of how salaries got out of control. But the Oilers had little to do with it and I don’t think Gretzky’s salary can be singled out as the one that started it all.

Wow would you please for the love of god stop calling yourselves “Leafs Nation.” Last time I checked, most of Canada hates the leafs, plus that name is stolen from other franchises (most notably the red sox).

There is no quick fix for this team. The hopeful appointment of a viable President and GM such as Burke or Holland will go a long way to moving in the right direction. It will be up to the new boss to make the hockey moves needed to stop this team from having to make a last mad dash at the end of the year and instead be a team that looks down on 3/4 of the league this time of year and scouts how to play them in the 2nd and 3rd round of the playoffs. I am an always will be a Leafs fan. Good times, bad times, you know WE had our share…but when the Leaf do finally add another banner to the rafters, I will enjoy it as much as anyone and more than those who have jumped on and off the wagon a hundred times.

First off, I’m not sure Leafs fans are any more loyal than fans in any other city in Canada. I think that is an invention by the media (fyi, Toth you’re not helping the situation).

With that said, I think where the rest of us differ from Leafs fans is that we offer a critical eye towards our teams’ performance. Being loyal means cheering your team on no matter what the circumstances, but also letting them know when they fall short of expectations. So when you’re team goes 0-25 on the powerplay, they need to know that that kind of performance is unacceptable (that’s not directed at any particular team; its just an example).

Also, I’m not sure there’s as much blind faith in Toronto as the media makes it seem either. Just ask Don Cherry where the first stop on the bandwagon is.

The Leafs being a crappy team in a crappy organization has nothing to do with the salary cap. Yes, the Yankees and Red Sox can spend more freely and “BUY” champions, but wake up folks, Toronto didn’t only start sucking since the lockout/salary cap. They could have spent as much as they wanted between ’67 and ’05, and what did that ever accomplish?

Gretzky did not want to leave Edmonton, he was sold to L.A. Roy left Montreal because he felt the coach disrespected him and from that one night in the forum up till now still seems to want to have nothing to do with Montreal.

well, ya, I know. Hence my post.

Toth, good call on the above! I honestly could not have said things better myself!

Toth, good call on the above! I honestly could not have said things better myself!

Hey Humber95 nice thought.
“Their farm system is ridiculous and they have no top prospects besides for Pogge and he’s not going to be the savior of this franchise because all he’s going to have in front of him is a bunch of nobodies”. Just let me ask you did you take a look at the AHL standings lately the leafs farm team are doing fine I think. They are 2nd in their conference with a record of 43-18-8 with 94 points looks pretty good to me. And as for Poggie having a bunch of nobodies in front of him, just look at the Montreal Canadiens this year, it worked out pretty good for them with a bunch of nobodies they are on top of the eastern conference. Just something for you to think about. Not that it matters but why bash the leafs farm team when the Hamilton Bulldogs are so much better with a record of 31-30-8 for only 70 points

You can’t compare the Leafs to the Yankees, because money means nothing in a cap system and the leafs are uncompetitive because of horrible management. The reason they don’t look like they’re committed to winning is because they’re only committed to money. To make this even worse, you’re exactly right about leaf fan devotion and it’s the fact that the demand is always at capacity that makes improvement superfluous to the needs of the ownership group. As for leaf fans being deserving, give me a break. I talk to leafers on message boards like this every day and every one I talked to threw in the towel and wanted this team to start tanking months ago. I almost wanted the team to fight back from that and make it just to show up the leafs ‘faithful’ for abandoning hope for their team…but that’s just too good for leaf nation. Another season of bitter disappointment and no improvement is much more fitting.

Mavv….its called leaf nation because everywhere you go….any rink in the league your gunna find MANY leafs fans. More so than any other team. When we play in ottawa, Alfie gets booed and the chant sounds like “Go hdjkh go” because of the massive amount of leafs fans chanting go leafs go over top of the go sens go. Same goes for when we play buffalo. Id challenge you to find any other fans like that besides montreal, who is the only team that has the ability to talk trash to the leafs because of their amount of cups.

I think the reason most people make fun of leafs fans is the constant “_____(star player) will sign here for a million a season because they’ve always dreamed of playing here”. That combined with the constant insistance that they have a chance at the cup.

I empathize for Leafs fans, though I don’t exactly feel sorry for them. Edmonton has been doing the “mad dash for the playoffs to finish either 8th or 9th” for a decade now with the only real blip coming last year. Being able to add Gagner due to that down year will hopefully be able to help them out of the muck.

The fans shouldn’t kid themselves, though. Maybe a team with a loyal fan base deserves better, but they are also part of the problem. Their fanaticism for the team leads to intense media scrutiny which scares away more players than it brings in. Heck, forget the media. Who would want to live in a city where they can’t even go to the grocery store due to fan attention (Ryan Smyth has noted that as a big upside in playing in Colorado over Edmonton) or a town where your kids get extra attention from other kids at school, positive or negative, because their dad plays on the team (Roloson apparently moved his kids out of Edmonton due to that)? It’s ironic that a team is deemed to “deserve” success due to them having a rabid fan base yet the existence of the rabid fan base is in many ways an inhibitor to that success…

The leafs are garbage. Hiring a rookie GM to run a huge franchise? Then they ask the fans to be patient because he’s learning on the job?? come on! the franchise is a joke. Handing out all those no trade clauses does not help either. This is a perfect example of what happens when you allow the players to run the team. The players should play and the management manages. Now the leafs will finish strong and finish 12 or 11th or maybe even 10th….then what? I’ll tell you…no high draft pick. Such a foolish franchise

Although I am not a supporter of the Leafs, I have to hand it to the people of Southern Ontario for their undying support of a team that has struggled so much over the past 40 years. Ironically it may be this intense loyalty that hinders the improvement of the team. The multiple owners or board of governors are fully aware that regardless of the teams performance, the rink will be sold out every night, and that Hockey Night in Canada will feature the Leafs for 90% or more of their national broadcasts despite the Habs and Sens being more successful and entertaining as it pertains to the on ice product. If there were a few empty seats and fewer national broadcasts this might make management sweat a bit and rethink their approach. Unfortunately hockey is a business and in business money talks.

You can’t spend the majority of the season in 29th place and then decide you kinda wanna make the play-offs in the last 15-20 games of the season. Toronto has to come out strong right from the get go next year…but then again, we’ve been saying that for 2 years now. Oh well. Summers coming and the Blue Jays have a team that could compete….once again, we’ve been saying that for the last 2 years as well. The joys of being a sports fan in Toronto :P

no top prospects besides pogge? i may beg to differ…have you SEEN stralman, and jeremy “scores his first nhl goal in his first nhl game of the year” williams or even jiri tlusty? they’ve been great..oh..and the marlies are IN the post season which tells you the leafs farm team is pretty darn good…i might not be staring all night at my poster of alex mogilny or thinking back to sundin’s 500th goal vs calgary, but i can only wonder about the future of the team and hope for the best.

Yes badge we always talk about how jealous we are about the nationwide media coverage toronto gets. Its the most important topic around the water cooler at work everyday. Dont really care how much money the owners make either to tell you the truth. New gm wont be able to choose the paint colour in his office without calling a board meeting for approval so dont hold your breath 40 years and counting. Maybe your grandson will be able to watch a parade in lets say 2075

Congrats to Sundin and company for demonstrating what it really means to don the blue and white. What good is a chance at a cup run if you have to trade your Leafs jersey for an Anaheim or an Ottawa one? Nobody dreams as a kid, “I’m gonna play for the Leafs…until they don’t make the playoffs for three years in a row, then I’m going to bail out and play for whoever will take me!” Sundin is at a great spot in his career: number one all-time scorer in Leafs’ history. He hasn’t blemished that accomplishment with a Pronger-like move, and he’ll forever be remembered and admired as a Leaf, cup or no cup.

Also, I love the fact that there is no Leafs bandwagon right now. Everyone that I talk to is a true fan, and although we are hungry for success, its not like we’ve had it and we’re going to leave if they don’t win next year. If we can wait four decades, we can wait one more year.

I have always been, and will always be, a fan of the legendary Toronto Maple Leafs!

In this day and age of sport it is all about the money. If the Leaf fans were to absolutely stop going to games and buying merchandise, and supporting all together…I would garauntee they would find a way to win. But they suck and management has been horrific and there is no future and they are still the richest NHL team. If I was a resturaunt owner and sold sawdust burgers (Leafs franchise) for twenty bucks a pop and the place was lined up every night while the place across the river winning the five diamond award for the best caviar on the planet for a dollar fifty (Redwings franchise), that was on the verge of bankrupcy because they cant get anybody in the door…why would I change anything? Sports is wounded..Look at the Devil Rays, they lose on purpose..pay the league minimum on horrible players, finish last in the East ever year, no fans (except the loudmouth that every Jays fan knows), why?? Waiting for that Yankees Luxery Tax money where they give Tampa Bay a big check just for being a team instead of trying to compete with that 300 million dollar salary that NY pays to get to the play-offs.

Leafs are my second favorite team . It’s kind of discouraging to see them out again

How can you compare the Leafs to the Yankees or Red Sox? The owners of these franchises actually try to put a winning product on the field. The Leafs have failed to produce an impact player through their drafting snce when? I can’t name one. Check out their draft record, Europeans dominate their draft year after year as mangement has tried to buy a team with overrated free agents – Blake, Kubina etc. When have the Leafs developed a home grown #1 goaltender – Mike Palmteer? Good luck Toronto – you’ll need it for the next decade at a minimum, at least you have the Jays with Gibbons and Riccardi to amuse you over the summer.

WestAllstar makes a terrific point. A “true fan base” means that the Leafs will sell out every night: first place or last. Face it everyone, the Leafs don’t care about you. Ballard certainly didn’t, and the Teacher’s Union certainly doesn’t and never will.

What you fans need to do if you want a better team is to start holding your team FINANCIALLY accountable rather than VERBALLY accountable. So instead of calling into a show and complaining about how lousy the team is, or harassing a player like McCabe until he no longer cares and ignores it all, try NOT BUYING LEAF STUFF. I know it sounds rough, but when profits fall or (God forbid) the team starts losing money, watch how fast top level GM’s, scouts, and capologists start coming in.

For those who say: “true fans never stop supporting their team”, please grow up. Pro hockey is for entertainment (notice how you’re paying to WATCH it – much like a DVD). Would you buy a ticket to a theme park if half the rides were broken? Of course not! So why are you doing this with your hockey team?

The funny thing is MLSE doesn’t make much off the average fan anyway because the average fan can’t even get to a game to spend money. I’m a fan and I’ve been to a total of 5 games since they moved to the ACC and a couple of them were through friends who got tickets from work. If anything, I would spend more if they were winning since I would try harder to get tickets, buy jerseys, etc. I watch the games on tv and at bars so they’re not making much off me and therefore I don’t buy the argument that Leaf fans are suckers because management doesn’t appear to want to win. It wouldn’t affect their bottom line if a lot of us “Leaf Nation” members dropped off the face of the planet.

Ahem…Gentles and Ladiemen of Leaf Nation…allow me to express my deepest condolences with a little song
I’m in heaven…flying high in the clouds….singing my little song, because the Leaf’s playoff hopes are gone….I never thought life could be so sweet, until another Leaf collapse became complete…I’m in heaven, and I don’t wanna come back down…
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! And the world keeps on spinning….

Ok so hears the thing… ya the Leafs have missed the playoffs 3 years I a row but to all those people who talk about them cleaning house I don’t think they need to. As a de hard fan I know that they have the team to win the thing is that JFJ was a businessman not a hockey man so now that we got Fletcher back and Gilmore helping out I see the leafs being a huge threat to other teams next year And to all those fair whether fans who are complaining about the 5 veteran with the big contracts and no trade clauses they got those cause they deserve them and they proved that to Leaf Nation I this push for the playoffs I believe the biggest problem the leafs have had is their drafting. If look at their draft picks over the past few years they have picked very few Canadians…I mean if you look at the more successful teams in the league a huge part of their roster are Canadians >look at the cup defending Ducks 19 of the players were Canadian and that my friends is from good drafting. So I don’t think they need to clean house I think they need ore Canadians in their line up. I leave you with this… which nation has the best Jr training program and is going for a 5peat in the world juniors this year?… Canada duh

If the Leafs,their media and their fans were not so arrogant and insufferable,one might feel for them in their futility and despair.
Canada’s team……really.
Fans across the nation…..they do have some out here in Alberta,but not many.I can’t/won’t speak for the rest of the country.
In the context of hockey,the “maple leaf” has become the metaphor for futility and the attitude of the GTA towards the rest of the country.

I am a Maple Leaf fan and will always be.I don’t like the Montreal Canadiens and they made the playoffs but certainly won’t win the cup.I never cheered for them and and I hope that Anaheim Ducks win the cup again.

As a die hard habs fan I just have to say I love hearing how the make me maple laughs suck.This is music to my ears.Maybe in another 40 yrs toronto,probabily not!hahahahahaha GOHABSGO

Do all you leaf fans have your head in the Sand. Thay could have the best manager in Hockey”And By The Way Bryan Burke is not even close to that guy. Everyone Bllames JFJ now its been since 1967 that the leafs won a Cup, so why blame JFJ. how long was Pat Quinn Manager, its those Clowns at The Top Peddie, Tannenbaum, Those guys that, Plus Get Maurice Out of there, he could not coach a Major Jumior “A” Team, Hire Brett Hull as the Team General Manager that is the Ticket, Fire The Scouts, Put Dougie Gilmour as assistant Manager & Craig Hartsburg As Head Coach.
Keep the 2 Clowns I mentioned out of the “HOCKEY END” of things, and lets Roll.

For Mavv:

Yes we are LeafsNation whether you like it or not. Had you seen what it was like here in Ottawa last week with the playoff hope still alive, I hadn’t seen a pro Leaf turnout like that in a long while. I do understand the most vocal of the Leaf haters across the country make it seem that their numbers are larger but they’re. Wait till you see what happens if and when the Leafs become a truly dominant force again.

Yes Mike, it truly does take a lot to stay loyal to a team that has been wandering in the wilderness this long and so in that regard we do represent what a true fan is. Although I understand completely you drawing a parallel to the Yankee situation, what is vastly different in NY, is there only one guy calling the shots, love him or hate him Steinbrenner is no Ballard. What needs to change in Toronto is that one guy needs to be in charge. With the board of MLS&E dithereing and clashing egos over even things as petty over who gets to approve what kind of pencils to buy for the administrative staff, it is no wonder that the hockey team can’t find success. I think that even with the fine input and due diligence of Kirke and Fletcher in “the search”, the one side of the board whom hates the other side of the board are going to end up screwing the pooch on the hiring but hopefully the hockey gods will finally smile on Canadas team and over-rule the incompetency that is MLS&E.

Ok for the people that say it infact is leafs nation you are wrong. Sure travel to Ottawa and Buffalo have leafs fans, because its only 2 hours away so u can go cheer for the team. You guys are off in your own little naive world and i agree with many people it is pure arrogance. You guys cant open your eyes. Come out to BC or alberta and your not gonna find too many fans of the leafs.

“However, in my mind, Leaf backers are the very definition of what a true fan represents. Rather than it being scoffed at, their passion should be treated with respect because no matter how bad things get, blue and white fever never seems to fade.”

Ok Mike…great…but take into consideration that because of population, the Leafs automatically have the most fans…you don’t see the thousands who have left to cheer other teams. Anyway…if Toronto didn’t consistently miss the playoffs…who would we laugh at?

People keep stating how aarogant and naive the leaf fans are but why can’t everyone see that any fan not just leaf fans are all aarogant and naive when it comes to their own teams. That’s just part of being a sports fan, and I know there are some fan more so than others(aarogant & Naive) but to disagree with this would be a lie not only to everyone else but also yourself. Any one who is not a bit aarogant or naive towards their own team is not a real fan.